Bob Green Innes,


Hamiltonian by birth & occupation!  

.... seeking to restore values, traditions, institutions, laws and protections Canadians once enjoyed
      .....lost by apathy
          ..... but stolen nonetheless

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FCP, CAP, Election 2011

Bank of Canada (BOC)

Money - create, inflate, deflate, banks


LRT 1ST, Latest

Stadium, Ti-Cats, Pan-Am

student debt, OSAP

Light bulbs, ban



Jump over to a petition calling for an end to Fluoridation in Hamilton. Plus, I'll make that site the home for future blogging on Fluoridation - look for the 'Blog' tag just under the header.

Jump down to Fluoridation, nice knowin' ya, but . . . . . . . . New Perspectives on Fluoridation.

Jump down to Flouridation for the Nation - yes or no. I ruminate on fluoride!

Jump over to Article published on RaiseThe Hammer Thanks, Ryan. Interesting comments - not everyone agrees with my impeccable logic!

Jump over to Article published on TheHamiltonian Nice illustration, thanks Cal.

Jump over to another health related interest of mine - ADD and the overuse of Ritalin.

If you're too rushed to read, just click the LISTEN button.

Tragic Injustice At The (Everything’s) OK (Oakville!) Corral:
Medical Cowboys Slaughter Citizen Sheep

Blog 32, Feb 2012

The bright eyed citizens in their wooly coats, filed bravely into the sprawling Halton headquarters on Bronte Road.

This was their day, the day they had worked for so long, the day when the great injustice of slow Fluoridation poisoning would be undone so health could be restored to bodies long rotted by insidious effects of the nasty neurotoxin. Some greeted friends and joked; it was bravado of course. Others were muted, serious, tense – they knew it would be a close vote. Mingling with the sheep were the medical cowboys, relaxed, confident, well dressed in their rich professional suits. They chatted and looked haughtily at the rabble, as if this was a 14th century jousting match. Their modern day lances of ridicule and sarcasm were as invisible as a friendly cat’s claws.

That the sheep were doomed immediately became clear in the morning session when a Dr King slashed viciously into the sheep’s defense and pointed to the impregnable tangle of studies, authorities, arguments, and shadowy statistics that maintain the logic of fluoridation....

Sorry about the inconvenience but until I get this site moved to a bigger host, please continue reading at Terry's blog here

Fluoridation, nice knowin' ya, but . . . . . . . .
New Perspectives on Fluoridation.

Blog 20, the ides of March, 2011

The recent rejection of Fluoridation by the residents of Calgary and Waterloo has brought attention to concerns that health risks of Fluoridation outweigh stated dental benefits. Generally hydrofluocilicic acid is added to drinking water. People increasingly worry about the effects of such chemicals. Think DDT, food dyes, hydrogenated oils, hormones and other additives. Specific concerns also include:

In addition, brushing teeth properly is a far better way to reduce cavities than fluoridation, as any dentist will tell you. Thus, cavities have been reduced over many decades, quite independent of Fluoridation. The whole concept of fluoridation however, may undermine this success, especially in populations vulnerable to dental fluorosis (ie. low income groups) because of confusion - if fluoridation is so good, why bother brushing?

The other benefit of brushing is that people can chose toothpaste, fluoridated or not, that best meets their health needs, taking all individual factors into consideration. Fluoridation, as mass medication, cannot do that.

For those who do not understand the importance of brushing, the city already has (and should maintain) an effective, dental assistance program involving dental examination and where needed, treatment for students, Ontario Works clients, etc. This program addresses the problem exactly where it exists, and includes a critical educational component.

For these reasons, we feel that Fluoridation has outlived its usefulness and should be immediately discontinued. Saves money too.

Happy brushing! Comments welcome.

Bob Green Innes

Late news flash - It seems Fairbanks Alaska is the latest community to consider terminating fluoridation. This report makes an excellent read and touches on the most important aspects in a considered, professional, and in my view, an honest evaluation. Thanks to Diane Sprule of for the link.

If you're too rushed to read, just click the LISTEN button.

Fluoridation for the Nation, Good or Bad?

-#19 Feb7, 2011

Is fluoridation a problem the average person should have top of mind? Not if one is being pursued by cops, mafia or lions. No, no. Nor if one is grappling with puberty, menopause or senillity, or has just had a bad accident. But the rest of us, parents especially, should read on - conspiracy sites say so! They say it's a Nazi conspiracy and lowers your IQ!

Seriously, most of us are of the understanding that fluoride is added to drinking water to prevent tooth decay. We may hear about some controversy, but trying to be concerned about it is tough, especially as nobody dies right in front of us on the bus from from drinking water, fluoridated or not. F, (the chemical symbol for Fluoride) seems to be all around us anyway, even in pristine waters and soils. Which means it also finds it's way into common foods, notably tea, raisins and fish(1).

This is my effort to understand what is going on and whether I should be concerned, especially on learning that a recent decision by voters in Calgary and Waterloo (Kamloops, 2005 [6]) to jettison their fluoridation program. "Treating water with fluoride varies among municipalities: Belleville, Picton and Bayside treat the water, but Trenton, Frankford, Bloomfield and Wellington do not".(9) Some communities have never used the stuff (Kingston), others, besides Waterloo have stopped (Welland, Whitehorse). Is it the letter 'W'??!! Not to mention that most of Europe does not fluoridize their water. Can all those people be wrong? Are their teeth all falling out?

Right away, you should be suspicious. Something so hotly debated, and which has been eliminated completely in some areas, can surely not be said to be essential. Plus it costs money. Do we have money to waste, besides non-essentials like our local stadium!!? Let's look further.


Its mainly dentists who say it's essential. Dentists focus on teeth not on other issues, such as general health. They neglect non patients such as babies, for whom F is now contra-indicated, the genteel way of saying 'bad idea'[6]. Dental associations don't delve into why babies should not ingest F. People susceptible to various health problems such as osteoporosis (bone), thyroid & kidney, alzheimers, etc. have their risk increased [6]. Therefore, it certainly makes sense for such people to avoid F altogether, which can only be accomplished by avoiding fluoridated products like water, or even common toothpastes. Until recently, non fluoride toothpastes were found only in health stores.

The public debate is confusing, and filled with hyped claims and counter claims, which are very difficult to untangle. Opponents make the strategic mistake of mentioning bone fluorosis, which is rare in these parts, so they get labelled alarmists. Mainstream Fluoridationists prefer ad hominem attacks, heaping scorn on opponents. They also like to cite many august experts, who we are supposed to be just too dumb to question. The media loves it, typically siding with, who else, the city in question, as seen in the Belleville Intelligencer [2]. Might they be having a cosy relationship? Ever thought about how many city notices are published in the local media, and who pays? Ever thought about how much elected officials need media attention? Everybody trusts the media, right?

Fluorosis damage to bones is a big deal in some tropical areas (and toxic industries [6]), that combine high natural fluoride levels with high thirst levels, so many older people suffer severe symptoms. Around here, fluorosis usually refers to dental fluorosis, or unsightly mottling (breaking down in severe cases) of tooth enamel. This seems more frequent in the US, where fluoride levels are higher (4ppm max vs 1.5 in Ontario), and also where kids may ingest F by actually swallowing pleasant tasting toothpaste. Public authorities belatedly warn of such risks but what about all those toothpaste adverts showing a fully covered brush instead of the recommended pea sized dob? If the stuff is so safe, why are warnings needed? Are warnings related to the amount of F in toothpaste, which varies widely?

Our vaunted experts' next line of reasoning is that cavities have declined as a result of fluoridation and are lower in areas that use fluoridated water. Dr. Bill Ryding of Prince Edward County, for instance, says "that a study of county junior kindergarten students [near Picton] found 3.29 per cent had early childhood tooth decay " whereas "In Hastings and Prince Edward counties overall, the percentage stood more than twice as high at 8.5 per cent." [2] Case closed, no? Not so fast. You may want to amuse yourself by disecting this piece of bafflegab. Can you spot how it misleads? Hint - it helps to look at a map and think about the implications. Did he mention nearby Kingston, which has never Fluoridated? Why?

The bottom line truth is that cavities are way down in both fluoridated and non-fluoridated areas simply because, after two generations of public education and dental care advertising, eating more fruit & veggies, etc. , dental health in general is much better (even as dietary stressors rise such as over-eating & sugar, etc.) Brushing and flossing is critical in cavity prevention - as any dentist will emphasize (in their office), but which their association conveniently seems to forget (at public meetings). Ryding's example of the larger rural county having worse dental health is simply a reflection of the lesser education, media penetration and greater poverty in the rural countryside, as well as possible overdosing on F in wellwater. It seems officialdom uses a non sequitur to make their case. Why?

Lies, damned lies and statistics... ..Mark Twain.

This is where it starts to look like the conspiracy theories are actually onto something. Tin foil types say the original thesis was bad science [6] and has been repeated ever since, as gospel. They say that dental, public health, and research authorities have been manipulated (browbeaten, bribed, outfoxed?) by the fertilizer industry trying to get rid of their toxic and expensive-to-dispose-of scrubber waste (which is where the stuff actually comes from (#42)). They say that there are studies that show that non fluoridated communities have better, not worse oral health (as noted). And that the fluorosis issue is being covered up. They say dentists are profiting by treating unsightly mottling caused by fluoridation (with bleaching and " porcelain veneers cost $600 – $800 per tooth [6]). Not to mention innumerable claims over side effects, starting with the aforementioned dental fluorisis - a mottling and ultimately, a failing of tooth enamel and aggravation of osteoporosis. Plus all the other evidence of kidney, senility, thyroid, Downs Syndrome, problems, and yes, lower IQ. I don't pretend to be expert enough to sort this out. One would need a PhD and years of experience. But, given the defensive nature of these professions & bureaucracies, one can legitimately wonder who would ever start their academic career by trying to prove a negative, especially one that smacks of conspiracy? How would one prove a conspiracy anyway? Judge for yourself. Is it possible that Climategate also taught us a lesson about the reality of 'science'?

But ask a water or public health official, and they will eventually fall back on the need to protect the teeth of poor children, whose parents are not able or willing to encourage, or enforce good habits. They always get you on this. Plus, they get a free ride from an officious press.

Being a curmudgeon, am I allowed to suggest, as did one gentle Jesus, that the poor will always be with us? Or is that politically incorrect? Won't we always have someone with lousy teeth? If fluoride really worked, shouldn't we all stop brushing and flossing anyway? We could save 10 or 20 minutes a day, a boon in our busy lives, no?

So why do you or I have to pay taxes, to put our own health (dental or otherwise) at risk, because some people apparently cannot get their kids to brush properly? Parenting is not always easy, I know. But does that really mean brushing is not the solution? The real solution for such kids is school based programs that inspect kids' teeth and offer free dental services, such as coating teeth with special enamel. This sounds like a much better use of taxpayers money - focus on the actual problem, the actual person with lousy teeth that water managers say they are worried about. More likely than not though, it is these programs that will be cut, while they continue to fluoridize everybody . . . . and everything.

The problem with adding F to water, is that only a tiny fraction actually does what it is supposed to do, "interact directly with tooth surfaces (15), and even that is ineffective [6, pg7]. The rest either goes down our gullets (poisons bones), or goes down the toilet, or goes into our garden or washes the car. Imagine going to your boss or wife and saying "honey, i achieved (maybe) 0.000000002% efficiency today!" That's gummerment for ya.

But despite this extreme low efficiency, many people, especially kids, are overdosing on F to the point fluorosis is becoming an epidemic (especially during tooth formation under the gums). How can this be? One problem is that everyone has different habits causing ingestion of F to vary much more widely than the experts are accounting for. F is introduced to farmlands and food by way of fertilizer (not all F removed), pesticides, teflon cookware (1) and pollution from industries (steel maker's fluorspar), coal burning, etc. I checked my cupboards and found nothing actually labelled as to its F content (spring water excepted).

There's still quite a bit [of F] left [in the fertilizer], and that's another problem. We are poisoning our fields with something of the order of maybe several hundred parts per million of fluoride from those fertilizers, and that enriches the soils gradually from their natural levels. Some of these soils now have two or three times the fluoride levels they had without the use of that kind of fertilizer. - Dr. Albert BURGSTAHLER

Kids as noted, sometimes swallow their toothpaste (230-1500 ppm) (Labeled toxic in the US). Pop and fruit drinks made in fluorided communities, and/or using pesticide (cryolite) sprayed fruits can concentrate F as water is boiled off in the process to higher than recommended levels (8-10ppm). Same for cereals, pasta and other dried and processed foods, which basically adds water twice. I posit that poor people are more likely to smoke and drink a lot (pop, booze) and eat a lot of pasta made in old pots (scorched teflon), and live and work in polluted environments, especially in Hamilton. It is no surprise therefore, that it is the low income sector that exhibits a lot of the fluorosis recorded. This means that the very sector that is used to justify fluoridation, is its primary victim. Actual ingestion can therefore rise above recommended levels due to particular circumstances without anyone being advised there is a problem. Somehow, in a world of risk intolerance, this flies under the radar. Gee, I wonder why. We make laws against jaywalking, smoking, etc. but we manage to ignore negative fluoride evidence in plain sight.

I call this the multiplier effect, and posit that it is circular, with a tendency to increase as time (and mining activity) goes along. Is this why fluorosis is so prevalent in the third world? We already know that fluorosis is on the UN top ten medical problems worldwide. Does anybody know what a natural level of F is anymore? Is the F listed in foods such as "(carrots, turnip and beet greens, dandelion, sunflower seeds, garlic, spinach, green leafy vegetables, nuts (especially almonds), turnip greens, dandelions -[1]") caused by natural or introduced F? Is this why cereals, gelatin and baby formula are also listed as sources of F? Good topic for a researcher.

To drink or not to drink,
To think or not to think.....

By now, I hope you have an appreciation of the difficulty of deciding whether or not to use bottled water, regular toothpaste, and go through the bother of checking (non uniform) fluoride levels in foods. If such a thing is even possible.

Setting conspiracy aspects aside for the moment, lets try to make some summarizing statements:

  • cavities can be prevented by brushing and flossing.
  • cavities might be lessened by fluoridation but quite probably not.
  • fluoridation has risks but at low doses, both risks and benefits become less detectable, therefore undecidable.
  • multiplier factors put kids and low socioeconomic groups and smokers at risk.
  • people with compromised bone, kidney, brain, immune, systems that may be adversly affected by F, should be excused from having to submit to public medication. Their meds should be on a case by case basis, the same as any other treatment.
  • doctors have used fluoride to treat osteoporosis with dismal results. They also recommended Fosamax which turns out to be causing problems. Hey, they once recommended mercury too.
  • there is clear undebateable need to add Chlorine to city water, there is no clear undebateable need to add F. Adding F is therefore forced medication.
  • adding F costs money, the benefits are uncertain.
  • public health programs that treat individuals are effective and address the core issue - brushing, diet.
  • iodized salt is one thing, fluoridized salt is now being pushed by industry, ever seeking of new opportunity.

The more I think about this, the more I'm leaning away from fluoridation, although I am chagrined to recall, that as a young student, I happily dissed places like Kingston as 'unprogressive' for not fluoridating their water, just like this writer. But it seems to come down to asking why would anyone need fluoridated water, when toothpaste is so ubiquitous? Being uncertain, but nervous, about osteoporosis and other possible effects, surely the proper solution is the null option, so that each individual can select their own medicine. There is something odious, even chilling about mass medication, even if we have benefited from iodized salt and vitamin fortification for decades.

Further, I would like to challenge all doctors involved in forcing F upon us, to explain how they reconcile their arrogant certitude with the Hippocratic Oath they may have made, which I believe constrains doctors to do NO harm. Not do a little harm. Not harm Jane in order to fix Joe. The oath says no harm. Then again, doctors may not be taking oaths any more these days, and certainly they perform a lot of abortions, which seems unHippocratic to my lay instincts, except when life is threatened. This little rant may or may not apply to dentists who, may take a modified oath of some sort. Then there's the professional liability angle. You can sue your doc for malpractice. Can you sue your city for wrong medication? Not bloody likely.

It certainly appears that that public health professionals (among others) come in two main varieties. The don't-rock-the-boat types, afraid to criticize their peers, regardless of their personal opinion, and the bought types, promoting F to further their careers. Very few break this pattern, but such people do exist. As often happens, the best reference came to light just as I was finishing off this effort - from an insider who actually did the unimaginable - he changed his mind - Dr. Colquhoun, dentist & public health manager. It is very instructive to read his story, which confirms what I said earlier about the arrogant modus operendi of the fluoridationist 'experts'. Fluoridation is certainly looking like the blunder of the century to me and others like Colquhoun, Albert BURGSTAHLER, Richard Foulkes, MD and Dr. Hardy Limeback.

To be fair, if a public servant (or doctor) wanted to go against the party line (ADA, AMA), they better start looking for another job, or even career. No Kensian indoctrinated public servant ever wants to do less, they always argue for more - their pay, pensions and prestige depend on it. This is no exception. Certainly seems like an unholy alliance of industry, gummerment, their agents and the media, is lined up against the people, or at least against me.

Procrastinate, vacillate, pontificate! Since I originally looked at this a few years back, I've been cutting back on F, but not eliminating it entirely .... just in case. I've been using both natural and fluoridated toothpaste, bottled and tap water, probably in a ratio of 1 part poisoned, 1 part F-free. I've been too lazy, too cheap and too annoyed to go any further but after browsing through this material, I'll be redoubling my efforts to eliminate F, and I'll certainly support any no-F initiative that can get started. I'm disgruntled at having to worry about F and, once again, I must credit the tin hat brigade for bringing all the inconsistencies, hidden incentives, manipulative techniques and bad science into view for us to consider. We pay gummerment to look after all these complicated issues for us. It seems they are too lazy, or gutless, or bamboozled, to think it through properly, and their go-with-the-flow attitude aligns much too perfectly with the toxic waste producers, instead of with the people. I don't care if you call it a conspiracy or not, or tar me with that brush, they are supposed to be working for THE PUBLIC, not for THE MAN.

But just in case you disagree - don't forget you have the option to brush with any toothpaste you damn well please. Many people have no option about the water they drink. As with most folks, I just wish to be left to decide my own medication, according to my own lights. Thank you.

For the fact and number junkies, here are a few morsels to chew on.

Most sources indicated that the lethal dose is about 2.5 grams, or about the same as the average body content, a rather weird coincidence, no?

Now switch to milligrams (mg)for total ingestion or for concentration, ppm, parts per million (equals mg/litre or ug/g at normal densities). 2.5 ppm for instance is the level which stains teeth. But the numbers are all over the place, depending, in part, on whether the source thinks you should take it or leave it and whether it is US or Canadian Data (higher levels are tolerated/recommended in the US). In fact, I more or less gave up trying to dissect the numbers, though to be sure, they're important.

Lake Ontario (where Halton Region draws much of its drinking water) contains about 0.15 parts per million of fluoride. Halton Region ups the natural fluoride level to 0.50-0.80 parts per million
. Hamilton adds fluoride to the level of .6ppm. Hamiltonians had to spend $2million in 2008 plus one million/year operating costs.
  • some regular strength [tea] preparations contain as much as 6.5 parts per million (ppm) of fluoride, well over the 4 ppm maximum allowed in drinking water by the Environmental Protection Agency." - 'Potentially harmful fluoride levels found in some instant tea'', Washington University School of Medicine, January 25, 2005. Another source says Today it is not uncommon for there to be an average of 1mg of fluoride per cup of tea.
  • Pesticides. the main fluoride pesticide used in the US is cryolite (sodium aluminum fluoride). The EPA currently allows up to 7 ppm of fluoride on over 30 fruits and vegetables treated with cryolite. This 7 ppm fluoride tolerance applies to: apricots, beets, blackberries, broccoli, brussel sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, citrus fruits, collards, cranberries, cucumbers, eggplants, grapes, kale, lettuce, melons, nectarines, peaches, peppers, plums, pumpkins, radishes, rasberries, squash, strawberries, tomatoes and turnip. A 2 ppm standard has also been established for potatoes, which are second to grapes for total cryolite usage. [Dow chemical requesting further allowances. ~1999,
  • 1997 proposed tolerances for residues of cryolite: cabbage 45ppm,
  • if you are really having trouble sleeping you might try to follow these links (and more sub links) pertaining to residues of cryolite on veggies. Repeat for Sulfuryl fluoride (& others?).
  • Big Chem. "In a recent petition (February 15, 2002) to the EPA, DOW Chemical asked for extremely high fluoride tolerances on a wide number of common foods, including, 98 ppm for wheat germ, 40 ppm for wheat bran, 31 ppm for rice bran, 30 ppm for a variety of nuts, 28 ppm for corn meal, 26 ppm for corn flour, 25 ppm for millet grain, 25 ppm for wild rice grain, 25 ppm for sorghum grain, 25 ppm for wheat grain, and 17 ppm for oat grain"!
  • cereals processed in a fluoridated area had fluoride concentrations ranging from 3.8 ppm to 6.3 ppm. heavy beer-drinkers may ingest more than 4 mg daily from beer alone.
  • A pea size amount of pharmaceutical grade fluoridated toothpaste contains about 0.25mg of fluoride. One glass of industrial grade fluoridated water contains the same amount of fluoride. We are told not to ingest the pharmaceutical grade fluoride in toothpaste. We are told to ingest the industrial grade fluoride in drinking water. - commenter Bently who cites [Emphasis added.]
  • Wellwater. In geological areas rich in fluoride, drinking water obtained from groundwater wells can be the principal source, leading to estimated intakes of fluorides in adults up to 27 mg/day.
  • Source: Lung Cancer in a Steel City: A Personal Historical Perspective The major source of the excessive amounts of fluorides in the Hamilton atmosphere is the huge amounts of fluorspar (Spar) used in steelmaking. Thousands of tons of this calcium fluoride are used daily by the two huge and one medium-sized steel mills in Hamilton; all three mills are located in the northeast section of the city.
  • Here is an example of the backwards logic that results in ever more strident declarations from experts. Can you spot the problem?

    The Food and Nutrition Board (FNB) of the Institute of Medicine updated its recommendations for fluoride intake in 1997. The FNB felt there were inadequate data to set a Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA); instead, Adequate Intake (AI) levels were set based on estimated intakes (0.05 mg/kg of body weight) that have been shown to reduce the occurrence of dental carries most effectively without causing the unwanted side effect of tooth enamel motteling known as dental fluorosis (5). See the section below on Safety for a discussion of dental fluorosis.

    Adequate Intake (AI) for Fluoride
    Life Stage  	Age  	Males (mg/day)  	Females (mg/day) 
    Infants  	0-6 months 	0.01 	0.01
    Infants  	7-12 months  	0.5 	0.5
    Children  	1-3 years  	0.7 	0.7
    Children 	 4-8 years  	1.0 	1.0
    Children  	9-13 years  	2.0 	2.0
    Adolescents  	14-18 years  	3.0 	3.0
    Adults  	19 years and older 	4.0 	3.0
    Reviewed in September 2007 by:
    John J. Warren, D.D.S., M.S. Professor Preventive & Community Dentistry
    College of Dentistry, The University of Iowa 

    All of a sudden, dentists publish a recommended daily minimum intake to your body. This has worked its way into diet guides such as this official source without anybody questioning that it is an assertionn based on an assumption that is itself under severe suspicion. So we have gone from trying to avoid a poison to falling in love with it as shown here. Fluoride candies anyone? No? But fluoridized salt- coming to a shaker near you! (if you let them)

  • ...Long-term effects of ingesting fluoride on our bones? The results of more than five epidemiological studies indicate increased hip fractures in both naturally and artificially fluoridated areas. The incidence of hip fracture is also increasing more rapidly than can be accounted for by aging of the population. There are numerous studies which undeniably prove that fluoride's cumulative effect on bone is devastating. It is well known that chronic ingestion of fluoride can cause osteofluorosis or skeletal fluorosis (crippling bone disease). This evidence has been reported in at least nine studies from five countries (contrary to promoters' denials, this occurs even at relatively "low" water fluoride levels). Moreover, according to the World Health Organization, individuals consuming between 2.0 - 8.0 mg of fluoride/day (2-8 litres of fluoridated water), can develop the pre-clinical symptoms of skeletal fluorosis (arthritis-like symptoms). As recently reported by the U.S. PHS, many women living in fluoridated communities are now ingesting up to 6.6 mg of fluoride per day, a crippling dose for some if maintained (see fluoride.htm and skeletal.htm for more info and chart on daily fluoride intakes).

    It is widely recognised that fluoride "therapy" for osteoporosis adds mass to bones but produces inferior bone -- at least seven studies found structural abnormalities or mineralization defects. In short, the biomechanical competence of the skeleton may be compromised because the tensile (elasticity) strength of bone is sacrificed.

    Full disclosure

    I first looked at this issue a few years back and decided to start buying bottled water. My body type and genetics predisposes me to debilitating Osteoporosis. This is not a casual review. Of all the articles reviewed, the comments by Dr Colquhoun on bone weakening convinces me that worrying is better than ignoring. Maybe you can afford to not worry, but my trust in the system is severly shaken. Buying bottled water is the one positive action I can take, especially when F is not labelled, ie. residues on fruits, veggies, beers, wines and grains. At this stage, worrying about estrogen-like compounds leaching from the plastic bottle into the water seems inappropriate - ie.I've had my kids. So I'll pick the lesser of two evils. And pay.

    In closing, I'll leave you with a link to be read to the tune of "50 ways to leave your lover" Fifty reasons to Oppose Fluoridation Updated April 12, 2004, by Paul Connett, PhD Professor of Chemistry, St. Lawrence University, Canton, NY 13617

    Unsettle your councillor. Ask them to introduce a motion get rid of fluoridation once and for all.

    Stay tuned :-)

    Bob Green Innes

    Refs & Miscellaneous

    1. The Fluoride Glut - Sources of Fluoride Exposure The surprise to me was the inclusion of smoking on the list. My mental ruminations have come up with a hypothesis - based on this and tea, I'll posit that F in the soil is taken up by stems and leaves more than fruits, seeds, nuts or fleshy veggies. This might explain why coffee is not on the list. Should I now drink iced coffee in the summer? I'll posit further that this may cause F to build up in soils over time, which might explain why 3rd world soils, having been farmed for centuries, are so high in F. There's a nice project for a grad student.
    2. Health board wary of water request by Barry Ellsworth, Belleville Intelligencer
    3. Fifty reasons to Oppose Fluoridation Updated April 12, 2004, by Paul Connett, PhD Professor of Chemistry, St. Lawrence University, Canton, NY 13617
    4. Toxic Chemicals In Your Water
    5. The number of excess DS [Down Syndrome] births due to water fluoridation is estimated to be several thousand cases annually throughout the world
    6. Petition under the Auditor General Act to Discontinue Water Fluoridation Excellent summary of the evidence of harm to humans, animals, fish, trees. Sources, toxicity to bone, dental, thyroid, brain, kidney, cancer.
    7. burgstahler - - The net result of all this was that there was no difference statistically between the tooth decay rates of the permanent teeth in the fluoridated and nonfluoridated cities, even looking at lifelong residency.
    8. Fluoride Action Network
    9. Fluoride Journal
    12. How to read right.Fluorosis and fraud in America: hiding the epidemic of dental fluorosis. Doug Cross 24th November 2010
    13. Another professional with a mind change, this time because of fluoride induced Thyroid problems. Incidentally, the 2nd page gives the clearest description of the actual substance used in drinking water and how it differs from what is used in lab studies
      We learned that the source of fluoride for municipalities is not sodium fluoride, the compound used by researchers to determine benefit versus risk. Instead, surprisingly, we found that what is added to almost all city water when it is fluoridated is the industrial waste product hydrofluosilicic acid.

      This scrubber waste item, generally from phosphate fertilizer production, is frequently contaminated with varying amounts of cadmium, aluminum, arsenic, lead, or mercury. We found serious studies showing that minute amounts of these heavy metals (much less than would generally be considered toxic) are harmful in various ways when combined with fluoride. Moreover, we were amazed to find out that not a single safety test has ever been performed on hydrofluocilicic acid!

    14. FLUORIDATION [public] ATTITUDE CHANGE John E. Mueller, Ph.D. Conclusions The experimental results strongly support the hypothesis that when the average voter is confronted with arguments for and against fluoridation, in an objective format without conspiratorial overtones and in a noncampaign situation, he is likely to find opposing arguments to the measure more persuasive than those in its favor.
    15. Unethical Fluoridation amounts to forced medication of the water supply. Such practices demonstrate a complete lack of ethics on the part of its promoters. Studies as early the 1930s showed extreme hazards to man and the environment due to fluoride dumping and exposure. Companies and organizations involved used the promotion of "fluoridation" as a way to avoid lawsuits due to dumping toxic wastes and later for economic gain.
    17. Coplan: That benefit is not the result of fluoride getting into the bloodstream. The only benefit from fluoride occurs when it comes in contact with the tooth surface. Thus, health-related government agencies and the numerous non-government health "experts" who favor ingestion of fluoride from municipal water supplies have been supporting a health policy without merit.
    18. Dr. J. William Hirzy (2000) Senior Chemist at the US EPA Headquarters states: "If this stuff gets out into the air, it's a pollutant; if it gets into the river, it's a pollutant; if it gets into the lake, it's a pollutant; but if it goes right straight into your drinking water system, it's not a pollutant. That's amazing."
    19. "The findings show that all the fluoridating agents chosen increase the corrosion of lead pipe to some extent in Thunder Bay tap water." - Note, by Bob: I replaced my lead water pipe not long ago because in-home measurements by the city showed a high lead content. Regardless if Hamilton water is somewhat different than Thunder Bay water (harder), since lead leaching does occur, it is only reasonable to posit that such leaching would be similarly increased in Hamilton. Since lead pipes are prevalent in older, usually poorer neighbourhoods, this is a third whammy on lower income folks. This could easily be tested and should be.
    20. Source: The Flouride Debate | Question 19 | What is dental fluorosis? I believe that fluorine does, in a mild way, retard caries, but I also believe that the damage it does is far greater than any good it may appear to accomplish. It even makes the teeth so brittle and crumbly they can be treated only with difficulty, if at all." (See 10-9: Copy of Dentist's Letter from "The Town Without a Toothache," George W. Heard, 3/15/54).
    21. From the same source. "A recent study in Europe looked at X-rays of children with dental fluorosis and children who did not have fluorosis. The bone structure of the children with fluorosis was different from that of the normal children. The largest deviations from normal were seen in younger children and boys. (Fluoride, Journal of the International Society for Fluoride Research, Jan. 1993, pp. 37-44.)"
    22. Few techniques have been reported to improve the appearance of fluorosis or fluorosis-like lesions. External bleaching is an accepted procedure. However, when bleaching is used in conjunction with 1heat, postoperative discomfort often results. Cohen reported esthetic improvement on maxillary anterior teeth using warmed 30% hydrogen peroxide solution. Suzuki2 recommended acid etching of discolored teeth for 1 min prior to bleaching with 30% hydrogen peroxide. Colon3 reported on a method for treating brown stain and pitting using hydrochloric acid, hydrogen peroxide, and anesthetic ether. McCloskey4 reported a technique using 18% hydrochloric acid and pumice. Powell and Craig 5 reported the improvement of "fluorotic-like lesions" using a calcium sucrose phosphate gel. Their procedure involved etching the teeth for 2-3 rain with 37% phosphoric acid followed by a 4-min application of 2% sodium fluoride. Forty per cent calcium sucrose phosphate then was applied to the etched tooth surface.
    23. Petition to Auditor General Good source of supporting data. Very professional. Robert Button BScPharm, Dryden, Ontario. What interests me with this is the idea that he says that the F level in Lake Ontario is way above that in the local rivers and that fluoridated municipal discharges are affecting certain organisms. Is there gradual a buildup of F happening in the Great Lakes because of all the different sources of F discharged into the environment? Is the 25ppm noted earlier natural or man made?
    24. Fluoride & Fluoridation Can Cause Cancer, Osteoporosis, Tooth & Brain Damage by Dr Tim O’Shea, excerpted by Healing Cancer Naturally from, copyright 2000 NewWest
    25. Fluoride-linked down syndrome births and their estimated occurrence due to water fluoridation

      Although the etiology of DS in areas with nearly a nil level of fluoride in the water supply has not been discussed until recently, my analysis reveals that fluoride from daily food may contribute to DS births. Supposedly, fluoride has been a steady environmental factor as well as an intrinsic aging factor in older mothers. Of course this interpretation will require another confirmation from various scientific disciplines. If the evidence becomes generally accepted, then fluoride might be an unavoidable public nuisance, especially for young mothers. "The lesser is better" may be an important principle of life science in connection with fluoride.

      Artificial water fluoridation for prevention of dental caries was introduced in 1945 in the USA and has been recommended and promoted by the World Health Organization. But now we must ask the people of the world whether such an amount of fluoride linked to Down syndrome can justify a possible decrease in dental caries or not. It must be stressed that the prevention of dental caries can be achieved by environmentally safer and less costly alternative procedures.15 --

    26. In the interest of understanding what experts maintain, here is the official CDA dope on fluoride and fluoridation. Can you imagine the difficulty an individual dentist would have in arguing with it? Compared to .6ppm fluoride, Galileo's task was easy - if only 'they' would look in his machine! Caveat Emptor.

    Comments Received


    1 From David AW Burla

    Hi Robert!!!

    The following Email was sent to 16 MP's and MPP's, Mayor Ford of Toronto, and Premier McGuinty. Only about 10% "Read" this. LOT's of stuff in this Email for you to read. Freely post this stuff to Alert the public of these TRUTHS! Ideally, the Toxic Fluoride must be BANNED WORDWIDE! Niagara Falls recently banned it! I've been trying to stop this crap since 2009. Chris Mackie at the Board of Health E-mailed me recently and said Fluoride is NOT A DRUG, but a SUPPLEMENT! HOW CONVIENIENT! Also enclosed is a MP3 Anti-Fluoridation Song. QUESTION: Do you have the PM's direct E-mail address?


    IF YOU CARE about your Family, the Citizens of Canada and the Environment, PLEASE read the following testimony of a man and his surviving co- workers who suffer a myriad of Health problems from being exposed to the same Toxic Waste Fluorides that are used nation wide in Municipal Water Supplies.

    The Fluoridation Chemicals used are Fluorosilic Acid (H2SiF6) and Sodium Fluorosilicate (Na2SiF6) and are sourced from the Phosphate/Fertilizer Industry Smokestack Scrubbers, which contain LEAD, ARSENIC, RADIUM, etc. (Not the good Calcium Fluoride as found in Green Tea, etc.!

    No wonder WHY so many people drinking, cooking, bathing, washing dishes/clothes, etc. have SERIOUS Physical and Mental Health problems that create a HUGE BURDEN and COSTS for the Medical System! The Food Industries use Municipal Water for ie: Bread. Water and Sewage Treatment Plants DO NOT FILTER these chemicals out! Waste Water containing these chemicals are discharged into our Rivers, Lakes and Oceans where they are consumed by Fish and other Aquatic life that we consume! We the people are being OVERDOSED with these Cancer causing Fluorides!

    Also, Please read the full text transcript of the FLUORIDE DECEPTION video created by Mike Adams, executive director of the non-profit Consumer Wellness Center AFTER Author Gary Pittman's Testimonial, as well as more information on this subject.

    "A Healthier Society is a more Productive Society!"

    Please do your part in BANNING these Fluoridation Chemicals A.S.A.P.! Comments will be greatly appreciated.


    David A.W. Burla

    Hamilton, ON


    David goes on to add much information. Because of its volume and my site's limited capacity, here are links to the material.

    The letter referred to above by Gary O. Pittman can be found at many sites such as this one

    The next article is found on his comment at the petition site(signatures #11, 12 & 17)

    Thanks David. Now at least I know the difference between FSA and SFS, plus, I'll add Occidental Chemical Corporation, Swift Creek Chemical Complex to my list of supplier of this material. / Bob

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      MyStoneyCreek asks pertinent questions - i'd better explain myself - if that is possible!

      Solar energy vs the last of the PIIGS vs local efforts

      Banking, money risks, a modest proposal

      Reflections on a Greek phrase

      Forcing my mind to grapple further with that pesky smart meter thing. I'd hate to be a party pooper when it comes to the good intent of the smart meter - BUT.........

      So much to mention - GMO foods, fluoridation, dogcast listening, Puppy - maybe I'll put up a sort of note space for miscellaneous

      Ongoing economic meltdown - two threads: Hamilton's unique problems and the more general economic melting down of the US. Four Horsemen.

      Global warming questions and myths. I'll borrow this for now.

      Eventually, thoughts on the deeper questions that vex our world.

    Favs & Locals

    Bob's BlogLog

      This website is finally getting to be something organized. Alas, just as it's getting into full swing, it's getting full! I'll be keeping this site alive for various purposes, but I'll be more or less migrating to my page at, probably with a trailer here.

      In case you had some difficulty with broken links, please be patient. I'm just changing files over to php so if something doesn't work, try changing the extension from .html to .php. PHP cuts the storage requirements and facilitates the updating of anciliary sections like this one. Master files are used that are pulled into every page (links, header, footer, favs, breviations, etc). For anyone interested, the clever command that is used for this is 'include', the syntax for which can be found on the net. Very cool, no?

      Most blogs are based on simple table layouts - two or three column using a markup language. The professional sites have sophisticated coding in many languages to provide many features such as automatic archiving, variable text size and the like. We shall see what the future brings but for now I'm just enjoying using HTML and a smidgeon of others such as PHP, javascript. CSS looked interesting too but with the above php setup, looks to be unneeded. Debugging is not my strong suit but this page is nothing like the old basic programs that once drove me nuts.
      Next: I'll also be starting to group blogs on the same page - why not - saves storage space too. New table for miscellaneous??? (For now, I'll just stick odd stuff below.) Eventually I may get code to improve the comment section but in the meantime, i found an online forum site which makes things easy and fast. First though is to bring some order to the numbering system which right now is conflicted between normal chronological postings, logical pointing system, and page groupings in reverse chronological.

      Also need to ensure font is not too small on newer hi res screens. Please use your browsers zoom feature as needed - or complain!

      As you can see, Netfirms is hosting this site. My frugal buddy Johnny suggested it as the most economical site for a modest blogger. The two domains and the two sites cost about a case of beer per year which i guess is justified. There is limited storage and limited bandwidth but that's ok for now. They offer pagemaking services but being a control freak, I prefer to stick to my own understandable system. Hope you enjoy.

    Bob's 'Breviations

    • LRT - Light Rapid Transit
    • MSM - Main Stream Media
    • k, Mn, Bn, Tn - thousand, Million, Billion, Trillion Dollars
    • GMO - Genetically Modified Organism Foods
    • PIIGS - Portugal, Iceland, Ireland, (Italy?) Greece, Spain,
    • OSAP - Ontario Student Assistance Program.
    • RAP - Repayment Assistance Plan
    • CSLP - Cdn Student Loan Program
    • Cdn, US, Aus, GB, Fr, Ont, PQ - Places abbreviated
    • F - fluorine or, because I'm lazy, fluoride, fluoridated water

    Pet Peeves

        * gummerment overspending
        * what we're doing to our political and educational systems -

        * banksterism.

        * political correctness (equity policies) along with

        * MSM - mainstream media, especially the Spectator, our local rag

        * human rights commissions and their guilty-until-proven-innocent destruction of our ancient rights. Soon to get worse.

        * Overmedication in our society - this link relates to kids ADD, ADHD

        * Rigid thinking, dismissiveness, judgementalism, The Spectator

        * legal liability issues - playgrounds, bake sales gone. This is stupid (corporatism).

        * senior (upper levels of ) gummerment funding - distorts and deflects responsibility

        * Public sector unions

        * credentialism

        * a little rant on mailboxes!

        * spelling in the English language. The real culprit is Johnson and his dictionary that picked words before they ripened!

        * apathetic people. Plato said 'Your silence gives your consent'

        * aphids, Torx screwdrivers, proprietary parts, the great Eyeglass ripoff

      * retired Professional Engineer, married, father of 2 including one still in the system.

      * pursuing many interests - partial list below

      * small-c conservative (but not a Harper PC - that's the party of big business!)

      * investigating causes of economic problems, finding troubling trends and possibilities

      * Former candidate, Hamilton East Stoney Creek, FCP, Public System Trustee, Ward 4

    Links to other Interests.


    For other items or requests, please feel free to email me. Sorry for the spambot-fighting inconvenience but I've learned not to provide the normal link or the inbox becomes clogged or breaks down completely. Please paste the following then remove the spaces and add the usual symbols where noted:

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